Did we just have sex?
Mar. 8th, 2010 09:57 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
lightcastleSurprising to probably no one reading this,
people can't agree on a definition of sex. Single Americans are also shockingly ignorant about contraception. <-- PDF
Some of the stats on contraception knowledge shown here are depressing.
As for the "what is sex" thing, that's a long-standing discussion for me and many people I know. I remember Rek having an interesting one involving hands and genitals and of course there is the infamous "if you are in a room with someone while sexual activity is going on, you have had sex with them" definition.
As I think I've mentioned before, I am torn on this issue myself. A purely mechanical description is probably best from the ease of making it a binary side of things, I can accept a mechanical description from the point of view of medical risk, but then that's not the real question present in "have you had sex with that person".
At the same time I know in my personal history I have counted the same actions done with different people as sex or not sex. I shy well away from any definition that doesn't take consent and intent into account.
The whole "how is sex defined" also plays into some of the persistent myths about rape, such as the whole "date rape/campus rape is a "one time, bad decision", which David Lisak's research shows is rarely so.
Last time I remember talking about this, someone proposed the definition must be mutual for the two people. i.e. - If I think we had sex and you don't, I should revise my opinion of the matter. That still doesn't sit right in my gut, although I don't really have a good argument against it.
Then there is the related but not identical question of cheating. My test for "did you cheat" is only tangentially related to "did you have sex". For me, the answer is "if you have to think about it and come up with a technicality about why you didn't really cheat, then you did."
So who among you has an actual definition of "this is sex" beyond my rather vague "I know it when I see it/do it"?
(p.s. If people do contribute, no telling them they are wrong. Please feel free to disagree and discuss, but please keep it civil and constructive, thank you.)
people can't agree on a definition of sex. Single Americans are also shockingly ignorant about contraception. <-- PDF
Some of the stats on contraception knowledge shown here are depressing.
As for the "what is sex" thing, that's a long-standing discussion for me and many people I know. I remember Rek having an interesting one involving hands and genitals and of course there is the infamous "if you are in a room with someone while sexual activity is going on, you have had sex with them" definition.
As I think I've mentioned before, I am torn on this issue myself. A purely mechanical description is probably best from the ease of making it a binary side of things, I can accept a mechanical description from the point of view of medical risk, but then that's not the real question present in "have you had sex with that person".
At the same time I know in my personal history I have counted the same actions done with different people as sex or not sex. I shy well away from any definition that doesn't take consent and intent into account.
The whole "how is sex defined" also plays into some of the persistent myths about rape, such as the whole "date rape/campus rape is a "one time, bad decision", which David Lisak's research shows is rarely so.
Last time I remember talking about this, someone proposed the definition must be mutual for the two people. i.e. - If I think we had sex and you don't, I should revise my opinion of the matter. That still doesn't sit right in my gut, although I don't really have a good argument against it.
Then there is the related but not identical question of cheating. My test for "did you cheat" is only tangentially related to "did you have sex". For me, the answer is "if you have to think about it and come up with a technicality about why you didn't really cheat, then you did."
So who among you has an actual definition of "this is sex" beyond my rather vague "I know it when I see it/do it"?
(p.s. If people do contribute, no telling them they are wrong. Please feel free to disagree and discuss, but please keep it civil and constructive, thank you.)
logical ick
Date: 2010-03-08 11:02 pm (UTC)Not that I advocate cheating, but that test bugs me. It seems to say "if it is possible to ask a discriminating question about whether or not cheating exists, then it exists", so unless a perfect (read: total) definition of cheating is set, there is always cheating!
I suspect that the root problem is the binary and lumped distinction "cheating/not cheating". It's likely better expressed as a set of boundaries, some of which may only be discovered post-hoc. The model of what constitutes cheating must be discovered and improved as a relationship continues.
Re: logical ick
Date: 2010-03-08 11:02 pm (UTC)(This is funos.)
Re: logical ick
Date: 2010-03-09 05:07 pm (UTC)See, that's interesting, since it's intent is exactly the opposite. Some people have phrased it as the "Would I want my partner to know this happened" test, which might avoid that for you.
In my case, it came out of the tendency of someone to say "oh, we never exactly defined that, or we did define cheating and technically this isn't it" as a way to basically try and shut down their partner's right to be angry at the behaviour.
In other words, they don't allow for post-hoc evolution, because since you didn't list it all in advance, I am blameless for everything I do you didn't think to cover.
I'm against that.